Genuinely GG
Genuinely GG

Episode · 6 months ago

Why Do We Cheat? W/ Jillian Hamilton

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This week, GG & Leila talk to Podcast host Jillian Hamilton (Cheating: When Love Lies). She breaks down all of the questions surrounding cheating, including the most important one: Why do we cheat? Check it out!

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Straw media. Hi everybody, welcome to a new episode of genuinely LG GG LGG and my cohost, Gole less, a sitting right here. What are we having started a lge? I don't know what's topical us. Oh my Gosh, Oh my God, I'm excited to be back in here. We've been having fun with Laylah. Laylah is learning the ropes, not doing a bad job either. People have been saying really good things and reviews have been great. People tend to say, can you tell your sister to just shut the fuck up? Bullowney? No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. They don't. They love the dynamic. They actually enjoy watching this. So it's been it's interesting to read what you guys have to say out there. I have a really cool guest today, you guys, Gillian Hamilton. She's really cool. She's gonna have a deep conversation with us about cheating and me personally, my views on cheating come from lack of communication and I want to see what Gillian Hamilton has to say and what Layelah has to say about if lack of communication plays a pivotal role in people cheating. So let's talk to Jillian Hamilton happen. You know her from Shaws of sunset. You know she doesn't hold back. I don't you cheating the way most people do. People will have a confusion that I call your into Holly. Then you can't cheat. You could just see coming. No, no, no, cheating still happens. This is genuinely Gig I'm really excited to introduce our next best to genuinely Gigi, because she has probably more stories to tell than I do, and that doesn't happen very often because I've got stories for days. Everybody, please welcome Jillian Hamilton. Welcome, Jillian hi. Nice to meet you. This is my sister, Layla Hi. Nice to meet you. Help Leyla. How are you? Thank you so much, both of you for having me. Him really excited to be here. Thank you for being here. Oh my gosh, Jillian, because I find it very fascinating, especially your podcast. You guys, Jillian has an amazing podcast, which this whole episode is going to really be around what Julian sort of does and and her choices and her stories. But the name of our podcast is cheating when love lies. Okay, so, Jillian, start us off with what is cheating when love lies, so cheating when love lies. Is A podcast about infidelity, and even that raises questions because people say, well, what is infidelity? For some people it's my spouse, for my partner is sleeping someone else. Right, that's pretty clear. Everyone agrees that that's cheating. But what about if your spouse to partner is texting with someone, sending them pictures of, you know, your kids or your family, or they're texting with them every time...

...they get great news or something bad happens and they're the first person that your spousal partner is going to before you and you have no idea that they have the secret text back and forth? Is that cheating? So a lot of what happens on the show is determining, deciding what really qualifies as cheating. So who determines that exactly? Who makes that decision that this is considered cheating and the how did you insert yourself into this rule? How did this become something for you to create? How did you create this concept and say I want to go forward and hear these stories and try to come to a conclusion that this is this or that is that. Yes, so I came up with the concept because I had experience cheating in my family household growing up and also on both sides as an adult. So I felt like I had a lot of perspective around the notion of cheating and when I was very open and honest and spoke about it, there really wasn't anybody certain age, okay, so let's say thirty and older, that couldn't say been there know it, or my sister experienced it or my brother experienced it, my father or my mother. Everyone I spoke to had some experience with infidelity, whether it was their own or someone else's, and I realized it wasn't being talked about in a way. Will you got to hear the story behind the story. So as to parrel, the great EST Parrel, many, many years ago she had brought this topic to the for but she is a trained, you know, professional clinician who would help people figure out what to do. I'm not that. I'm a big sister right. Want to hear your story. I'm not going to judge you. I want to hear the story behind the story. So you slept with your neighbor's husband. Why did you do it? What happened, what were the consequences and what was going on in your internal narrative that made you do it. So it really is the story behind the story and I'm very proud of the fact that we never really get sealacious. It's not about outing people and in fact I often disguise people's names and voices because it's not about Gotcha, it's really about trying to understand. I watched a couple of your podcast and listen to them and I appreciate it that you did do that. You Guy Better people a John Doe or you know. So that was nice to protect people and I'm sort of on the same path as you. I'm probably a little bit higher and a different path in my degree of it extremely but because I am into polyamorous relationships and I don't view cheating the way most people do, it's cheating still exists for me, which people have a confusion that, like all your into polly thing, you can't cheat, you could just sleep. No, me, no, no, cheating still happens. So that brings me to you and asking you. You...

...have all these stories that you've heard. Based on your experience, would you say that there is a commonality and gender for cheating? Male verse female? I would say it's fifty interest, especially once we go back again to what defines cheated. So let's enter the ladder. If cheating is defined by some sort of secret relationship that eventually ends up having some sort of sexual component, then there's a lot of cheating going on. Think about what goes on in social media, in the Internet, which a DM people, which it text people, Etcetera. So and and then there's this idea, you know that it was mostly reserved for men, but women are some power now. We've got jobs, we've got money, we have resources, we're out in public, we're not just at home right, Um, so we have all that access. Access is what creates the cheating environment. If you have access to others, greater access, greater opportunity, and then some sort of lack or longing, it creates the environment for cheating and infidelity. Do you think that one alone can play its own factor, meaning just having access to it plays a factor, or do you think that there must be an underlying personal issue in the relationship dynamic, because I often hear men women both always wanting to blow naim the relationship for they're cheating. I'm not being valued and off I this and I don't know how he doesn't sleep with me or she doesn't sleep with me. I often, I don't often hear people say I need more of this, I need this to be happy. I made the mistake, I was wrong in my own self and honesty by committing to something that I shouldn't be in. You don't hear people say that very often. You hear people blame the relationship. So do women tend to because women, we are naturally more emotional than men? Do you hear women tend to blame the relationship, the man for their cheating reasons? Or is it more because of independence, power and access? Great question, and I'm ruminating as you ask. It's because I do. I would tend to say it's the former. Something is wrong in my relationship and this is my justification for behaving the way that I do. Recently I had on a great guest, Dr Jennifer Gutman, and she talked about how they're these men, you know, typically middle aged men, that it's becoming somewhat of a phenomenon in her practice that they go online on instagram and they look at beautiful women such as yourself. Right they're going to see great, attractive young women and they're just going to look and they might text back and forth or satin music with the woman or, you...

...know, talk about dreams and aspirations, but they have no attention of ever even seeing or sleeping with this one. I said, Jennifer, you can't tell me that these men are going on Instagram to look at these women and there's no aspiration of ever hooking up. Like no, goes on for four, five, six years and then the wife finds out and she's devastated because she can't believe that her husband has been carrying on. But here's the Lynch Pin, and that has caused him to have less sex with her because now, when he's idealizing on Instagram, becomes comparative. This beautiful women that I'm texting with her, dming with on Instagram is quote unquote better than my wife, and it diminishes the guy's desire for his wife and he stops having sex with her. And that's where the problem comes in. Is it maybe the emotional relationship that they're having? Is it the emotional relationship that they're upset about? Yes, I think it's the fact that the you know, do we qualify that as emotional? I would say so. I mean I wouldn't like it personally if my partner was going online finding women that he esteemed, quote unquote, better, more attractive, younger sexier than I, sharing with them, not telling me, and here's the clicker, caused him to have less sex with me. So now it's impeding that behavior is impeding on our relationship and that just seems very difficult, whether that would be happening for man or a woman. Yes, he had these aspirations, but at the end of the day he was a waiter. You know, everybody comes to La for the bright lights. Let's be real. We're born and raised in La. We kind of like shied away from the lights. D I'm maybe bitch. Well, it came an occupied your door. You didn't go about sure it. Sure do you think the rule ships based on power and and money, and I guess money is power. Do you see be people being more okay to having someone that's cheating on them, for instance? You know athletes are infamous artists. You know musicians are infamous for this lifestyle. Right, the groupies and all that, and their wives usually are aware of the groupies and they have their own rules and the relationships and whatnot. But what when do you think it becomes not okay? In these rules? These women are saying, obviously he's successful, he's powerful, he's rich. Maybe one day I'm gonna, you know, cash out or have my pay out on what this is. I'm okay with whatever women he's off sleeping with for or they're willing to overlook it because of the lifestyle that they write. are now believing there's...

...a payday one day. Well, said there's coming a pay day at the moment. You know, they're right. They're living their lifestyle. So that's all that stuff. You know, they're like, well, maybe I won't bring it up, even though they know inside something's happening. Yes, they might not mention it and like not spoken, it didn't happen, kind of thing. I agree with your point of view a hundred percent. And you know, then, how do we look at these women? Often they're qualified, as the woman that you've just described, this poor thing, she has no self esteem. She's, you know, being victimized. I mean, I don't know. Sorry, did break the myth which she probably has people right, he's off playing this game or touring. Let's not assume she doesn't have people one and number two that she's not very well aware of the exchange right for it. This particular woman, it could be a viable barter. I have a beautiful lifestyle, my kids to protected. I'm safe in exchange for this. I'm not saying that I would did do it. I'm not saying that you would do it. I'm not advocating for it, but I do believe that there's a space, obviously because you know, women like this is do I that are okay living in this dynamic. Just like you said, there's I know so many of these really, really wealthy couple. Yes, and it's just unspoken and both the husband and the wife have their own thing going on and I think they both know about it, but they choose to just ignore that fact. Thursdays I'm out. Basically now they don't ask what's going on on Thursdays, but we know what's going on on Thursdays. Half of the world is living in a polyamorous relationship without calling it a polyamorous relationship because of society saying you're you supposed to be married, man woman. This is why the norm is right. I mean, if everyone were to just call it what it is, everyone we're in a big fuck polyamory. Fuck Fust. I don't want a polyamory fuck freend. Finally, we're in one. You are not my choice. Well, I was choice or not. It's happening. We just should accept that it's going to happen. Or No, I don't agree with you on that. Jillian, you should actually have my sister on, I'm your podcast, because she has a very good story. Layla, do you want to briefly tell Jillian so shed, because I think this is a good topic of conversation. Cheating, like because it's a I don't identify with cheating. I told I was married for like two days literally, and I told that if I'm not around and there's a hot chick, I don't care. If you're like a quick ears, I don't care. I Care Right must a lot of people do. But I was in a marriage, I was in a relationship for about thirteen years and I always had that like inclination and I'm not a stupid girl, let me tell you. There's not a lot that gets by me. So right when people are around me, knew and I didn't know. You know, I know they assumed like, oh, how stupid could she be. I was in...

I was checking everything because he gave me reason to doubt different things. And then at the end of our marriage he wasn't really hiding it. It was like yes, and I'm leaving, and then come to find out after we're going through our divorce that this has been happening through and through, probably for thirteen years. I mean, these are not high on my man doing my type of stoff. Nanny, not Nanny Cam. I had cameras in my house. My kids ran, can't mind. My live in was in there. Didn't even feel the need to hide it anymore. I was out of town. We right in New York for that. We were doing process the the hair company, and that's what we're saying. Earlier, when the relationship or the marriage deteriorates to such a point that you don't even care anymore, it's very viable for either person to go off and find solace and someone person's art, some other person's art. But to go to the polyamory piece, because I have had a couple. They were both psychologists, I don't know if you've heard episode, and they're polyamorous. So not only do they educate through their practice, but they also lived the lifestyle and they were saying, just like you were, that you can still be unfaithful in a polyamorous relationship. It's not because you're in a polyam relationship that it's that there are no rules. Correct. What I came to learn and understand, and I'm not polyamorous and I'm trying to understand the culture clearly because it's relevant to my top much of my topic of my podcast, is that they're still rules. It doesn't mean that you just get to go out and do whatever you want. There's expectations that may not be socioonormative, that may not speak to the norms of society, but there's still rules and there are, you know, primary partners and secondary partners. There is there's a lot of terms. There's so many. There's non hierarchical, there's different there's different terms. You know, for I would have to be honest with you, for being involved in this lifestyle for a year and a half now, reading extensively, just talking to people. The one thing I think, the only thing that I think is different from any traditional relationship, and I mean this is the only thing, is that there's no ego in a polyamorous relationship. There has to be. There's no ego, you see when you are so I don't agree. No, no, it's a different it's an understanding that the love in that they possible that. Hear me out, Jealous Stop interrupting me and hear me out. It's impossible for you to get, not to get jealous because you're insecure with your own self. That's jealousy. Is only an insecurity of self. I don't think people are only insecure if they're jealous. I mean, I don't know if that's your sister. So you're revealing something personal about her now. I think that that is it. In even in psychology, when you stem where jealousy comes from, it is a negative emotion. That is in psychology. It's Psychoana one. Literally, jealousy is a lack of something in...

...yourself. What are you being jealous of? You're getting jealous of something that you feel is not being given to you. Know, because if you're in a committed relationship and there's an understanding and understanding of that, what we have a monogamous relationship different. I'm not saying breaking rules, I'm saying the only difference is a lack of ego. When you don't have ego. You realize it makes no difference from me if this man has another woman that he loves, if the love that he gives to me and the sex or the passionate l the things you can list do not change and stay constant, why do you care what else he does? How does it if I would assume that the majority of people out there, because a majority of people are just rather than having their what about what about like stds? No, no, no, you're this is not a sexual thing and more people who are in monogamous relationships are fucking other people on the side than in polyamorous relationships. Again, you can do that statistic. I can show it. I can give you the numbers on that statistic. Honey, people in polyamorous relationships barely cheat because the openness of communication is there, it's present. I have desired this other person. I would like to introduce this person into our relationship. Oh, so it's like a threesome? No, no, some of them are, but a lot of them are not. Yeah, that's that's a some of them read. No, generation that are. I've read that there are. I don't know anyone that's you know, I actually I interviewed someone on the podcast. I had a Sixsom it was six of them, and my first question was stds and she said we have a very big understanding between ourselves that we will never sleep with anyone else. We Chet, we get tested and we trust ourselves. So and they don't use production. That's a hill now, that's probably we want to go back to the I want to go back to talking to Jillian about cheating. So Layla was was cheated on, right, but leading up to that divorce, leading up to the cheating, as an outsider, I was able to see that it was not a healthy relationship, dynamic. He moved here to go after different dreams, an ounce for inspirations of modeling and acting, and you know that lifestyle and my sister's very business business go, go, go, money, money, money, right. So they met. She was like turned them into this other person and now he's like this money making machine guy. But there is this resentment. He started holding to her like I didn't. I could have been this famous actor or model or this or this or that, and you didn't Bell, you know, let me out. So this this misplaced anger. Maybe they were changing in their own lives. Maybe he was changing. Maybe she was changing in the misplace. Anger became blaming the relationship. The relationship was being blamed for the cheating when both, in my opinion, both were just going this way. Right, nothing in fucking common, Jillian, nothing in common. That's difficult. Yeah, right, nothing in common. Nothing. So...

...do you agree that there was? It was leading up, and I'm not saying our relationship was healthy or good in any way. And yes, he did hold resentment because he had these aspirations of being you know, everybody comes to La for the bright lights. Let's be real, we're born and raised in La. We kind of like shied away from the lights. Da, I'm maybe bitch. It came knocking on your door. You didn't go that. Sure it, sure, but the difference is, yes, he had these aspirations, but at the end of the day he was a waiter, like yeah, right, okay, no. Well, but what precluded him from continuing those aspirations congruent to becoming a business person? That was his own choice. He made that choice themselves. Also, loving you, La will do that to you. Well, in the lifestyle that we lived, you know, he came from a completely different socio economic background than our family, and I mean my sister was like twenty two and bought a six bedroom house, you know, and and up driving a push convertib, you know what I mean. So it was very different. Even if you meet them today and you see their kids, you could see which kid is more language here. They're just so different, so different. It's and he could have continued to pursue his if that was really his dream and passion. He could have continued it as a side thing. When we were going to get married, I was like, dude, come on, like you need a real job. See, there it is, that waiting table sands on back then bring in a hundred bucks to night. I called it the petty cash account. You know, my money go into our joint account. His money was like one dinner. Jesus Right, Christ I would pay the bills for the first to eight years of our marriage or of our relationship. Is that over time, that resentment built up in him and that's when he began to stray. Now he was straight. He was one of those that he gets his validation. There's a lot of men out there. They get their validation from the opposite sex. It was always the wandering eye. I mean yeah, he was was one of those guys like a charm every woman. But he has that insecurity where he needs that security by getting validation from the opposite sex. MM, that's how he feels like a man. Yes, I feel like the the show that I was on this this my friend Mike's shoe had, I think it's MICAS, the same way. Sorry, make married and he's now engaged, but throughout time his stories always come out to that. I don't I don't see why the women that he's with gets so upset because he's honestly just getting validation on social media. He might have hooked up with a couple of them. I think it's the ego that just needs to get rubbed sometimes. Well, that's his insecurity as well, exact get that validation from the opposite sex. That makes him feel like he's wanted, like he's more of a man. And you know, speaking of Mike, he told me about twenty years ago. This is he was my best friend. About Twenty five years ago. He told me that all men cheat and I told him,...

...no, not all men, not all men, probably all the men, you know, because birds of a feather flock togeather. You. Have you ever stolen before when you were younger. It's whatever the kid. So you're a thief for the rest of your life. You should be blacklisted as a thief. You're a COP Domania, I was like seven orful. Who Cares? Julian, let me ask you this. Do you think underlying, based on all the stories that you've probably heard and listen to, you're a girlfriends are guy friends, you're you know, just the people you interview everyone. Would you say a similarity in in in issues and coming to cheating with be a lack of communication? Oddly, I rarely talked about a lack of communication. It's always something much more visceral. It's like what you were saying Latelah. They that I resent her because she took my career away. I resent him because he's never home with the kids. It's not like, Oh gee, honey, if we could talk more, you know, things would be better. There's a real deep underlying resentment or feeling of being denied. It's not so much that here, if only we were talking, this would it never would have happened. No, no, I don't mean that, but I do mean the pain that's some such sometimes associated with being cheated on. Sometimes the cheating may not need to even take place if you're able to communicate that it's just not working out and you could spare this person that you've cared about for so long or claim to love, instead of going out and actively pursuing a desire. Say to them something here is not working for me and before I cheat and hurt you, I need to let you know that I think that this is what I need to do, or whatever the words. I'm just putting random words together, but I think to me, that is the communication right there. It's it's the just saying this isn't working for me, or I desire to just look at women on social media and I just like to get likes. That's all, I swear you know. Or honey, I need to go and be with someone else. That was the case that we just talked before. Some of these guys that would go on and look at the women on instagram. They pop got found out and then they see honey, nothing's ever going to happen, and she's say, but you're looking at those pictures, means that you don't want sex with me. So, regardless of whether you see this woman or have sex with her, it's affecting our relationship. And he says, I'm sorry, I can't stop. I need it. It makes me feel good, it makes me feel validated, makes me feel young, and she says, but it's hurting my feelings and it's hurting our sex life. So now you're on an impasse. So you're communicating. So then you break up. You break up. Let's play that tape forward. Can you afford it? Do you have children? Do you have health issues? You know, a lot of times I hear...

...about will just break up and I always say yes, in some cases you may be able to, but really play the tape for I can actually play the tape in twenty years forward and say and show the psychological damage that's caused on children, for parents who stay in a very undesired and unwanted marriage for the sake of, quote unquote, the children. They say, Oh, and the last kid goes to college, will divorce, we'll leave each other, and it's a miserable relationship. It's a relationship where mom and dad don't respect each other and that's worst for the kids. Sees that and they stop respecting women. If it's a boy or the woman thinks this is how I'm supposed to get treated by men if it's a girl. So I am flashed forwarding twenty years down and I would say break up because if it's not working and if they negatives outweigh the goods and it's certain things that can't be changed for the sake of your future. To glacy says, so much easier said than done. No, it's not. That's when you put your emotions to the side and it's a lot, but it's all emotional. Relationships are emotional there, but your emotional. It's emotional and practical. And I'm not here to talk about any one individual. You know what it would happen in your tape for twenty years or my tape for twenty years, right, but for every story about people that could just do it. You know, I got off the phone with a woman yesterday who said I did it and now I'm broke but I have no way. But he was a son of a bitch. He never gave me anything and now I don't know how I'm buying a by groceries next week. Now I we could all say she's more empowered. She's going to find a way. She's a very strong woman. I believe in her, but some people may not be right, some people may not have the the emotional constitution to go it alone, and so I just try like that's where it goes back to being non judgmental or just really listening, and I think there's an audience for everyone. I have a question for you. I have a question for you. Sure, do you in the work that you do, do you believe once a cheater, always a cheater? That's a tough one. I think there's a large proclivity toward it, but, and I hate to be cryptic, it depends on what you qualify as cheating. You might say. Okay, I mean I had this example. The Guy was like, I don't sleep with one anyone. Oh, that's great. Well, I have oral sex, but I'm not having sex with anyone. Same thing. I find absolutely no logical sense to that. Now be quite to see one actually cut to me. Okay, so what was once? Okay, once an addict, always added, once an Asshole, always are, if so, even addict. You might be in recovery, but you're always an addict. That's what they said. That's absolutely not true. You're in a covery and, okay, you have you ever stolen before when you were younger's what I get a kid. Yeah, so you're a thief for the rest of your life. You should be blacklisted as a thief. Your KLEPTOMANIAC. I was like seven years old. Who Cares? You...

...did it once. That's what you want. It defines who you are for the rest of you. Like, absolutely not. You can't say once means always. That means nobody has room for change or growth or evolution. Fuck that. I live in a world where I'm never end say it's a hundred percent, but I believe it's a very, very, very like ninety nine point nine ninety nine percent. I can't qualify with the number is and it's a very hard number to qualify. Some think number it's a fake number. I think ever, ever, ever heard in my life. It always goes back to what do you think is cheating? What do you qualifies cheating? Right guid would said, well, I'm not a cheater anymore. I don't have sex, I only have oral sex. So he's going to fill off the form saying do you still cheat? Saying no, yeah, so it really depends on how the person abuse it. But I do support both of your arguments right. People do have a proclivity and they stick with it, and then also people can have an epiphany and change, like I did that it ruined my life. I'm never doing that right. Yeah, it's not worth it to me. I agree. I agree. I think it all comes down to the definition of cheating and I think that's where I would again go on to what I was saying about communication. I think in the beginning of any relationship, whether we're dating or getting serious, if we can communicate our desires with each other, our needs and say, you know, this gets my sox off when I just I'm sorry, my socks, my rocks off, when I just look on social media and, you know, get this kind of attention from women, if this is something that's okay with you, that's all. Whatever it is, I'm going to stick with communication is key. Sometimes you will find someone who wants to be with other people and you never know, that person might be okay with it. You know, they just might be okay with it, so just kind of express it. Jillian Hamilton, I am so happy to have had you on the show. I really do think that you need to get Layla to tell the full story, because other stories. There's a lot to it. Okay, are you guys? If you want to know more about Jillian Hamilton, you can find her at Jillian Hamilton Dot Online. She has the most amazing podcast with you guys. The stories are insane. They are good stories cheating when love lies. Do not miss her podcast. Check her website. Thank you so much for being here, Jillian. Thank you so much for having me. Had A great time. It's great discussion. Thank you so much. Thank you. Well, that was a great episode with Julian. was fantastic. She's heard a lot of stories. She has. You have to do her podcast and tell your story. You definitely have to. I'm sure your story for her is like, Oh, nothing, I'm she's I've heard her pastcat podcast. My story is pretty crazy. No, it is, it definitely is. But one thing that I could not agree with the two of you on was things that cause for cheating. It's not necessarily to me access to what's out there. I don't agree. Okay, well, I think. I think it does come down to community vacation. I really do. We talked...

...about that. We even said, you know, with Jillian, if the issues are present and there, for instance, on their social media doing this and that. Why can't you just communicate that? If you love the person, just say hey, this l turns me on. If there's a fear of cheating that's going to lead into something else, then that woman or that man needs to communicate that I'm afraid this is going to turn into something else, and then it's the next person's turn to reciprocate communication. I think it just spoils down to boundaries and everybody's yes list of boundary communication. How do our difference? Set Boundaries and dedicating in any relationship, whether it's with twenty people like you, like, or just one like that, I like. You have to have boundaries, wood stock, Whoo Ah my God, either way. I mean this is why we do live in a world with a lot of cheating. That's happening. I mean it's just more common than we even talk about. We shouldn't judge it because honestly, every other person that you know has been cheated on. How I judge? I judge a cheater. Don't share a cheater. Don't judge. Don't judge. Call just falls you're a cheater. She's hello, bitches, I am the bomb. Okay, anyways, follow my route. and to weed and polly. It's the way of life. Okay, thank you for tuning in for another episode of genuinely Joe Gee. Thanks for listening to gem and lead GIG. download new episodes every week and, if you haven't already, subscribe and be sure to leave us a rating and review and, while you're at it, check out some of the other great shows available on Straw hunt media.

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