Genuinely GG
Genuinely GG

Episode · 1 year ago

A White Guy Confronting Racism w/ Jared Karol


This week on Genuinely GG, Anita and GG talk to author and activist Jared Karol. Listen in as Jared walks us through the myriad ways in which racism infiltrates our everyday lives, why it’s so prevalent and harmful, and, importantly, what we should be doing to confront it.

Check out his book and website here:

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Straw media. Welcome to another episode of genuinely GC. You, guys, apparently we have an amazing, amazing, amazing episode that someone forgot to mention more about her Jewish self to we always have time to hear about your Jewish side. That would need a what was it that you would have probably discussed in this episode about being Jewish that you feel like you means? Actually, I want to take it for this one time. It was for being Jewish and being and being darker. So there was there was a neighbor and our neighborhood that live up the street and he was like, you know, white guy would wear his collar up and just proper whatever family and he every time we would drive by his house to go down. So it was that was ridgeway my the street I lived on. We're timing down ridgeway. He if he was out there, he would yell at US and run up to the car and like try to threaten us. What you say? And he was just be like don't drive here. Don't like you're gonna be like go home, oh no, do this or he just mean things. So and I had my had a jeep, so I have my top down the stuff, so my parents at one point stought made me take the stone haven another way to get home, just to avoid him because we don't know he was going to do because, you know, maybe bring out. Yeah, they show me or whatever. Yeah, so then that was that. And then I'm a couple times my parents would like take walks at night whatever, he would come and say mean things like don't walk past this lever and and but, and he knew we were Jewish too, because we were the Jewish. You know, I ever went time and we were darker. But yeah, so then we we. So one to my mom was walking and he came up and said don't go this way anymore to my dad, and then my dad, which being, you know, a very, very just passive and just not conversational sauce, spoken. Yes, I've spoken. So the guy goes into the House and my dad got so upset that he walked up to the House and knocked on the door, like I opens the door and he's like get off my f and fucking property, I'm going to call the COPS, whatever. My Dad's like, you cannot disrespect us, and my mom's just like standing there like, Oh my God. He shuts the door. My Dad puts its foot out. Fuck, yeah, don't. Yeah. So we kind of like stuck up for ourselves. Good job one time. I Dad did that and then he's like so whatever, ended up kicking us, you know, came my dad a wile off the property. Then we call the cops and everyone knew his last name and knew who he was. So the COPS said to us just drive the other way. What? Because they're right, said drive around, go the other way. Do what guys asking you to do. All right. So, for all of you guys, I don't understand why we're talking about this right now. We have an amazing guest for this episode, Jared Carroll, who is the author of a White Guy Confronting racism, and we went in deep about talking about what it's like for white supremacy. And you guys know that Anita is from Ohio, so it was different for her growing up as opposed to me being, you know, one raise in la around so many different colors of people, and so this story. You forgot to bring it up in the episode, but I'm really glad you got to tell everybody right now. You guys. If you like the show, Rit us, review us, subscribe. please. It's like the best way to show us some LAV and right now we're going to get into this amazing episode with Jared Carol. You know her from Shaws of subset. You know she doesn't hold back. I'm little eastern, I am Muslim descent. I'm, you know, probably disliked in more parts of the world than any other race or religion. This is genuinely ggi. Hello, Jared Carol, nice to meet you. How's it going? Nice to me, I'm very excited, nervous and a little intimidated to have you on today, to be Oh my gosh, yeah, I'm intimidated too. Are you really yeah, Nice, I mean hiding them, not yus. Not Really,...

I mean a little bit. You know, I was a college athlete, I would I've been a speaker, I've been on stage and every time something like this I get a little nervous. Yeah, it goes it goes away like, you know, as soon as we press record and boom, there we go. Yeah, it's for me it's similar like, after so many years of, you know, being on TV, I still sometimes need the Red Button to let me know that I'm being recorded, because it puts me in like a zone. You know. I just turn on a raw that weeds. Good. Okay, you're both are kind of going like a little fuzzy on me. Your video is that is that? It's the wait, it's the weed. You're good. I took a good hit and he took a little good head. We are in the zone and we're so happy to have you here, jared. Thank you. I would like to just jump right into it and tell everybody you have a book and not only is it a book, but you reference yourself as this and you your ig handle. Is this a White Guy Confronting Racism? Hmm, I went love to de Code that entire title and what that means, how you came about being this guy, how you, you know, went about naming your book this and why yourself entitled, you know, this person. Yeah, Gosh, I mean, this is how long we have. We have three, four or five weeks to talk about Noah, but but seriously, Gosh, let's see. Where's what the entry point to it, I think, was a couple of years ago I was looking for a job. It was almost two years it was like November of two thousand and nineteen and I was looking for a job. I had a long term contract that it expe had run out. I said, you know, I think I want a job. I want a job, I want some sub stability, I want to pay check. So I started. I hired a resume coach because I didn't I have. My resume sucked and I hadn't really done anything for a couple of years with it. So I hired this coach and he was great and he said he's the first time we met were sitting in a cafe in person, remember when we could sit in person before covid? And he says, just tell me about yourself, I'll just take notes. So I start talking bout Blah Blah, and I'm you know, I'm an extrovert, I'm a speaker, I'm a rambler and he's taken notes and he's after about fifteen minutes he goes it's like hold on, sex stop. I said, what he's like? In these first fifteen minutes you've referenced yourself as a White Guy who gets it like five times. How came I don't see that in your resume? How can I not see that on your linkedin profile? How can I not see that anywhere? And I said, I don't know. You know, I kind of he's like that's that's how we're positioning you, and so is really like a realignment of what I already kind of knew but I hadn't really stepped into, because I've been doing this work. When I say this work, social justice work, Nancy, racism work, D and I work, which I kind of lean away from a little bit because I think it has its problems. And so with his help we kind of repositioned and then I just started started going from there. So it's really been about two years that I've kind of taken on this this this kind of label for myself and then, as you referenced, it turned into the book and here we go when I see. Okay, let me back it up before what I was going to say. What I was going to say was like you're not in my head to know what I was thinking. First, I am considered someone brown skin, Yep, right, I'm Middle Eastern, I am muddled Muslim descent. I'm, you know, probably just like in more parts of the world than any other race or religion. I've always grown up with black friends only mostly, I think, until I was like, I don't know, on my s I started having like Persian friends really, but I before that I was only hanging out with black people. So for me, when someone references themselves as a white person, it sounds to me a little bit like reverse racism and I feel like, and we see it every day. I think we're...

...seeing it a lot right now in places because everyone's becoming so hyper or alert about everything, so we're seeing all the slips and the mishaps. When you decided that this was your title, did you ever fear that maybe someone like me that is a different color, that unites with people more or maybe of color, might say, Oh God, yeah, of course he's a white guy, he could say that. Yeah, I do. I think about it all the time and you know, it's interesting. You brought up. You know who you grew up with. I grew up with basically ninety nine percent, probably even more, white people. So my whole upbringing was white and I talked about in the book to like and and you know, I was never, I never use the end word. I was never actively aggressively racist, but it was just kind of like it wasn't even my in my world. And so, and we'll get into this, I'm sure, in our discussion, but through a series of just events and awakenings that I became more and more aware, and especially more recently, the last I'd say six eight years, that not enough white people give a shit about racism, understand it. Maybe they think they do, they say they do, but then they're perpetuating systemic racism on all kinds of levels all the time. So what I'm trying to do most of my audience in the book and kind of who I work with, our white people say hey, you have to step into this conversation. You're going to mess up, you're going to get it wrong, you're going to offend people and you have to do it anyway because if you don't, then it just the status quote remains right. So that's kind of the angle of why I've kind of stepped into this because I feel almost I think initially twenty plus years ago, it was kind of had a guilt. HMM. Yeah, right, and there's more of the story which will dive into. But then more recently it's about like no way, I have accountability and I want to bring as many white people into that conversation as I can. I like that and I saw a quote from your book based on what you were just saying right now, which you say what white supremacy is. In that moment, you were saying white supremacy is an ongoing pandemic, a pandemic that we can see in here and feel all around us if we are willing to see it and hear it and feel it. That, that that hit me kind of deep because it's so simple. It's just such a simple, simple, simple thing, you would think, right, but it's so difficult because they don't want to see it. And that's what I'm wondering. Do you think people so Anitas from Ohio, so she's a Persian girl from a very different upbringing there, and I'm from, born and raised in La I saw a lot more colors here, you know what I mean? You probably saw a lot more white as well, right, a lot of white, a lot of white. Yeah, you know. So do you when you hear something like that, like and you, do you ever think about times in Ohio, like I wish if they were to just understand how simple it is to see me is the same. You. Did you have those experiences? I I was kind of because I was born there and and raised and are people knew our family. Luckily, people saw me as like white. Or do you think that they saw you as white? Oh, I don't know, I mean I never I think they because maybe you thought of yourselves as well as I assumed that they accept that I thought you were. Yeah, but like when I look at it, like you know that one maybe the Indian family, and in London, because you know there's a larger population of Indians, I get mistreated quite often by people, but it's like that one successful Indian family in a predominant white neighborhood that they are acting white. Like, you know Bohemian rhapsody. We saw the story Queen and what his dad was like. He thought he was a white wire didn't realize that people are looking at them differently as much as they think they are white. You know? Well, you I mean you're talking about like kind of a couple different potential concepts, like white adjacency. So maybe people say, Hey,...

...she's not white, but she's kind of white, so like she's one of us. There's that dynamic, kind of this anti blackness, right. Then there's white passing and white presenting, right, which are different but kind of interrelated, right, so you know and all those you know I don't know. You I need of course, until now now, if I as much, I think right, but I see a lot of you know, pe. I live in Oakland, so Oakland's a pretty diverse city, not as much as it used to be. I guess I'm partly responsible for that moving here. But my point is, you know, you see a lot of diversity, but there is there is this kind of this anti blackness that's maybe stronger or more prevalent. So if you are middle e certain, if you are Indian, if you are Latin X, right, maybe you're not as dark, and so you can eat either you can knowingly like hey, I'm going to try and pass this white because, you know, why wouldn't I? It's like more, more benefits, more privilege, and or people are going to see you as that. So you're like well, if they see me, is that like I'm going to go for it, you know. So there's those those those dynamics that take place in all kinds of contexts, in communities, at work, etc. Do you believe it's a choice that people choose to remain uneducated, unaware, as opposed to admitting that that simplicity is actually in back there and they can overcome that. is easier to be ignorant, I think. Yea. So yes, I think for the most part it is a choice. Pete, especially for white people, we have had the privilege of being white ever since whiteness was even created by spy Portuguese slave traders back in the wet fourteen hundreds. I mean, if if you know, two books that really capture pretty system will not succinctly but pretty thoroughly, are the history of white people by Nell Nell irving painter, and she says here's how whiteness came in to be. And then more recent that was I think two thousand and ten, and then more recently even Kendy, who's pretty well known for his how to be an anti racist, his book I think in two thousand and sixteen. Maybe it was a stamp from the beginning. Just shows how whiteness was even created. To too, it was for economic and capitalistic reasons. Less like Oh, we're going to be mean to black people, it's like no, we're going to create stuff that serves us and serves our economic interest. Oh and it just so happens that they have they're black and right now they're lesson and then you know from their boom, like the next four hundred years. Is What we're living with today. And so to answer your question, like you know, white people, there's enough out there, especially the last couple of years, where, if they choose, they can go oh, wow, yeah, I get it. So everyone. Oh Yeah, slavery happened, then Jim Kraw you know all the kind of the high level talking points. We all kind of know. But I don't think people, especially if if they're even a little bit aware of how it how it serves us to be white, are going to confront it, are going to combat it. And so they go, well, it's not that bad or that's not what I meant. You know all the excuses that you be here on an individual and collective level every day. We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, shaws and stun said we were the first middle easterns to have a show and a American network. There were so many protests. I think those same people now are the same ones who ask us for pictures and crazy. Yes, recently I'm on Bravo network and there was another show on my network called the real housewives of Beverly Hills, and there was this an episode that took place in the season where an Asian woman said to the White Woman that please don't tell me...'re one of those people that says I don't seek color. Right and now turned into a very big, large thing, because her response was, but I don't see color. And then, yes, right, right now, let ly, Mutt, let mind you all this. I would, back in the day, always say I don't see people for their color. Like I, I'm very new to this as well. I think it's a new thing for all of our society. We need to learn it together, as opposed to punish each other first and then learn teaching. But right now I think a lot of people are just angry, and that's what it is. But I I I would say the same thing somehow. I would all. But someone said, yeah, but you can say that because you are colored, and I said what, how does that justify the logic to it, though, because I have what I and that makes me angry. That makes me so mad. I'm like, okay, now I get it. I'm supposed to value you for your shape, your color, your background and all this, not say I don't see all that I see use the same as me, because I get it now. But it's like I also understand what people are implying sometimes when they say that how do you feel about this I don't see color situation? Yeah, it's I'm kind of laughing because when I talk with you know, any any friend, colleague, acquaintance of color, especially you know, a black person, but really anyone of color, it's like there's this kind of this chuckle of kind of in it's I think it spans this continue of like just another person, you know, like this kind of almost like annoyance to this really like pissed off, like you don't if you don't see color, you don't see me. And so, as a white person like I'm very careful, a couple things, not to position myself as an expert on race. I'm not an expert on race. I have done the work for twenty plus years. I have grown and evolved and and changed and I've I've read and listened and immersed and, you know, gone to events and you know all the things. So I feel like I'm in a position where I feel comfortable having these conversations, but I'm not an expert. I'm not an academic. I'm not a scholar. You know, this book isn't ten ways you can, you know, create an anti racist workplace. It's not that kind of book. And so and I would say I would never ever speak for any individual or collective right group of color, whatever their color. So I want to get all that preface out of out of the way. But what? So, to answer your question, what I would say is there's a difference between intent in an impact. So when someone says I don't see color, I think with most of the time what they're trying to say is, I'm not judging you by your color. Yes, which is a whole nother thing like which may or may not be true. Right, because we're not even talking about bias and all the things. Right, but really what it's what it's doing is invalidating a person's color, their background, their race, their identity, and it's also for a white person who doesn't have doesn't have fluency, it's an easy way to kind of get out of the conversation. Well, I don't see color, so there's nothing to talk about. So next, you know what about the series? Right, right, and so we see it all the time, this kind of sidestepping rug sweet thing, whatever you want to call it, and I think that's what the problem is, because, with the privilege that goes along with that, you can do that. And if someone tries to say, wait, wait, a secon let's have this conversation. Oh No, like, why are you making it about race? And then and then there you go. Status quote remains. So you believe, because I believe you did say that as well, in a non of course, not aggressive way. I want everyone out there to understand. I'm not speaking about this in an aggressive manner, but you did say that this is something that needs to be confrontational...

...and needs to be pushed and needs to be enforced because of all the injustice. To Find Justice, we need to fix the injustice, and that's what where the feeling and anger is coming from from everyone. Exactly. Yeah, I like that. You said that it's hard. It's so hard to find that fine line and to me I'm a very logical person, perhaps a little too logical. I don't really have that like fine line of you know, heart to me. If I were to hear someone say that, I would be so turned on and intrigued and challenge to say, well, what did you mean by that? MMM, because I don't want to assume what you meant. So right here, right now, let me know what you meant before I start assuming and creating my stories about you. You know exactly well, gg. You bring up some good points and in the book I kind of center like for Lenses, if you will, and they're not like laid out like Lens. One is if lens too, but they're interwoven throughout the book and one is social justice. So kind of like we've been talking about, like, if we don't understand like the nuances, in the details of the history of racism and white supremacy, like, then it's all just a bunch of bullshit conversations, right. So we have to like just understand that that exist and has existed. But let me ask you for one second. How do you, as as a white man and someone who advocates for justice for all everybody, how would you impose that on people who might come from a very racist upbringing, you know, how would you impose this? Yeah, well, it's it's it's hard and I don't have the answer really even an answer. I've found that there's always a continuum of people on this, on this journey. I know it's kind of a Cliche, like we're all on a journey. We are, but you know, it's I don't want to make it sound too tray, but for the folks that are really digging in and who are really against us and really angry and going to fight, you know, fight, you to you know there's no racism, blah, Blah Blah and all these things, those aren't really my my people that I'm trying to reach. HMM, we don't need to change everyone for the systems to change, right. So there there are enough people, and I've seen this, I think we've all seen it, just in our communities, in politics, in you in the media, your space, right in workplaces, where I'm, you know, where I'm spending a lot of my time. There are enough people who are more recently intrigued and waking up because of the movement that recent yeah, five's movement. I mean I think you know, the three of US know that. You know black lives matter and and you know systemic racism from police departments didn't start with the killing of George Floyd, right, we know that. Yeah, for a lot of people it was this moment, right. I think coupled with the with the pandemic, the other pandemic. You know what was that? Two months into it, two or three months into it, and everyone's feeling vulnerable and disconnected, and then this this horrific thing happens and people like Oh my God, Oh my God, like and then it's like this, Gil, how have I not known about this? Well, because you've chosen to not know about it. Okay, and so I think, I think so helping educate people on the history of why this is still, in two thousand and twenty one, happening, that it didn't start with George Floyd. So that's the social justice kind of Lens, if you will. And then I think two others that you kind of alluded to are Eq, so emotional intelligence. How do we enter into these conversations with awareness, right, vulnerability, with empathy? So if I come in I say tg, I don't believe you right. I don't believe that it's been hard for you to grow a Persian. You know, look at you, you're famous, you're on TV right, and you be like, like no, it's if not, it's not hard for me. So can't be hard for you, right. I have a lot of that kind of thinking, if not explicitly saying, and so emotional intelligence. You're like hey,...

...tell more about your situation, tell me more about you know, that of that incident you were you were talking about the other day about, you know, when you were blah, blah, blah, like really being present and believing other people's experiences when a hard time doing that. I agree with you one hundred percent. I mean not to bring in a completely different story, but just last night I was like on the phone with this guy that I'm recently dating and and it was sort of, I implied, the same it's the same concept. It's Oh my God, what the fuck was they just saying? What did you just say that about believing people's stories? There I'm so Lu I started thinking about it. Oh my God, I think the way it's affecting you, how it's affect I am like, who I have not said smoking them? Yeah, entire time. I I don't even know. I don't know. And I have to say, because I'm Persian and Jewish, being born in like this, a crazy white place of and be only Jew, and because, you know, Anti Anti Semitism is real in Ohio in general and general, probably a little bit in Ohio, because people did so the dark being a little darker, and I fit in a little bit more because everyone again accepted like Indian, like the Hindu, and so if you're dark, you're Indian. So I was just Indian and I was accepted. I think that was part of it. Plus, I think. Does it make sense? No. Yeah, it's sad. It's kind of sad. Sad their ignorance of knowing that there is like a Middle East and or our other you know, just Brown people out there, and it's not just if you know Indians and so. But I think in that case it was less than the whole, like being Jewish. Yeah, and we would get like those, you know, Jehovah witnesses are different, weird people coming to the door trying to give us stuff and make us because we were known in the neighborhood to be the Jewish. But you are known in the neighborhood. So it's like yeah, because, like you know, we never decorated our house for Christmas and we're like the dark house on the block. And Yeah, and we'll get those print calls with the some of the Jewish jokes left at her really answering machine. I never had a hard time with them, like having to get off for young keep poor, and some certain holidays I would have to go through like take my note to like fifty teachers for them to accept that, because here it's like everything shares down to Jewish people. Ever here shout so weird sweet. Why? Like so, yeah, so that was interesting to and some peas prove it, some wooden and we would just have to get an effort the day or whatever are they just went in, you know. Well, and neither I mean thank you for sharing this. Nah. So I had to wake up for a second from that, from the smoke. So I'm no, it's all good because, I mean, what you're sharing is exactly what we're talking about. So if I don't, if you don't share that, or I don't know it or I don't believe it, or you tell me or I read it or something I just like and I just dismiss it, then I just keep perpetuating the narrative like that doesn't exist. And since I it doesn't affect me, I've never had to, you know, fight for my days off school, for my holidays. I've never had, like I ever had to do any of that stuff. Yeah, right. So, if I don't even know it's a thing I hear about, I'm like, what are you? What are you talking about? That's not a big what is that? Right, and I just dismiss you. And so if you take that at an individual level, it's like, okay, that sucks for you, it sucks for her sex, for him, but if you take it at a systemic level, that's what perpetuates white supremacy, right, and so that's what we're really talking about. How do we bring that Eq, that awareness, that vulnerability into our individual conversations in our spheres of influence, like our communities, our neighborhoods, our teams, are, you know, whoever we're kind of really hanging out with? In your case, like you know your your audience. Like... do you bring these these conversations in these these stories so that people hear them and hopefully they're less likely to keep dismissing them? Right, and and have some some some awakening, some some some evolution of consciousness. Absolutely, yeah, it was. It was very difficult, especially creating shaw as a sunset. We were the first Middle Easterns to have a show on an American network. There were so many proud tasks against our show and the people protesting were Persians, which was the interesting thing. And what were they protesting about? Curious they were. I think they were just scared for the exposure of what's real inside, you know, the culture, because we have a very long history of wealth. You know, we were the Persian empire. We ran the world, you know, and I'm like it in every Persian can will tell you that, but it's like a Chinese words. I could tite well, but the Chinese empire actually ran the world, you know what I mean. So it's like but you know, we have that history and that the richness, and I feel like Persians are so obsessed with the superficial aspects of it to keep face, keep a front, pretend where your gold drive, your Mercedes? Where the Versachi? But you know what I mean. You don't have a savings you don't have this, you don't have that, but you have the gesture. So I think Persians were so obsessed with that and they did not want the cameras to come in and expose it. It. They didn't want to see that there are real people that have, you know, bullshit. We are broke as well, we have family issues as well. You know, we go through all that, but it was great. I think those same people now are the same ones who ask us for pictures and yeah, exam because you know, it's hard. It's a hard struggle for a lot of people because sometimes we're so busy fighting our own people to wake the fuck up. Then we have to realize there's a whole worlds of other people out there that don't even have an ounce of that awareness at our own people even had. So it becomes a nextdem teaching psychological struggle, in my opinion, totally. And DD thank you for being vulnerable, and I mean I know this is your job and you do this still. I mean it's still really powerful. Like to hear these stories and people need to hear them, and that's that's one of the other lenses, is this lens of storytelling, like who's whose narratives are being shared by whom? Or do we get to share our own narratives? Do people from, you know, from the downside of power, from who are part of the dominant narrative, IE, white ie men, I a straight people, ie, you know, sis people right like these we call it the narrative of the privilege majority. So I can come in as a straight white, SISS ablebody, you know, middle class man, and I can like like I'm never wrong, right, right, I just go and I just I can bulldoze through the world and I've chosen not to. But, as I think we all know, like so many people like me have, have not chosen not to write. They've chosen to write. Leverage, not to use that power and privilege to perpetuate the narrative of the privilege majority when it's challenged by by anyone really, but especially by someone like me. Is kind of, quote unquote, one of them. If we're on video, you know, air quotes here, one of them. Right, it's like, Whoa, it's it's both. It can be really powerful. Some people would like just dismiss me out of hand, like WHO's this white guy talking about this stuff, but then other people like, Oh, wait, oh, white guys talk about this stuff. Okay, I'll listen to him. So it's unfortunate that it takes me or someone like me to get through to them, but hey, if if someone's if they're going to got be gotten through too, then I'm happy to be that that deliver of the message right, you know, and I think with the black lives matter movement, a lot of people saw that both sides to that scenario. We saw the non black we saw the white people...

...that were protesting, were were helping, were enforcing justice in name of humanity, and then we saw those ones that we're taking the selfies and posting on Instagram and Hashtagging Blm. That turned into some other radical movement of its own. So again it became a war within a war. Now we are not even sure are we supposed to Hashtag blm anymore? We didn't even know what we were supposed to have, because now we're being told it's being operated by some right. You know, it became a war within a war, with an a war where even that white person that's there standing up for my colored people, they're colored people. I'm questioning why they're there and I don't want to be that human. I don't want to see that white person get punched by someone who questions their motives because they are taking a picture. Maybe there were a photographer who has been, you know, representing, in representing justice their whole life and they got mistaken for an instagram in fluencer. You know, there's there's little room from mistake where or canceled culture. You're done, right. Yeah, yeah, but I but one thing I wanted to say, jared, was that I love that you said in your instagram when you're post you said you don't have to be the perfect anti racist, you know, and that doesn't mean that every white person needs to be out there like you, writing books and advocating. So you know loud. I'm proud. But there comes a fine line with what you're okay allowing to happen in this world and what you close your eyes to in this world. Exactly. I mean you so so well, said gg and you said, you know, you brought up just a minute ago this idea of humanity. That's really what this is about. Yes, right, and I the first quote in my book. I just want to read it because it's from child brook. Yes, and you know, and I just finished her, her her memoir yesterday actually. So if you haven't read that unbound, it talks about how she founded the me too movement and it's so really powerful. But she says, I don't believe you're anti racist. Work is complete or valid or useful if you haven't engaged with black humanity. Well, right, so I mean like it's relationships, it's seeing people. So you can going back to the whole I don't see color and all these other things we've been talking about, like, wait a second, if we're actually engaging in each other's humanity and seeing each other like we're seeing their color, their faults, their their joys, their failures, that we're seeing everything, we're building those relationships and that's how movements start. And let's you know, local levels, at community levels, at workplace levels, and then, you know, it scales out right. The other thing I just want to make sure that this before, you know, just before it doesn't get in. I do this work. I like to say. So my father was gay and he died of AIDS in two thousand. I'm so I was. Yeah, thank you. I was twenty seven. So people want to do the math figar out how how old I am. So I was twenty seven and you know, I said earlier, like I'd say at that point, like my dad was trying to teach me. He didn't tell me he was gay till I was fourteen. Oh Wow, he knew he was gay, though he was out before. Well, yeah, so I like to say, I wouldn't even be like jared. Why do you care so much about social justice and equity and all the stuffs? I say, well, I wouldn't even be here if the world was an equal right equi the ball place because my father as a gay man in the early s. He couldn't come out, because he could, I mean all the things right, absolutely. So he did what he again are quotes, what he was supposed to do, and he married a woman had a kid. That kid was me. Finally, a few years later, he said okay, now I have enough courage, I have enough, you know, momentum, and he came out and got a divorce and, you know, moved to San Francisco, and this was I live. I grew up in San Diego, so southern California as well, and so all I knew is from like a two and eleven year or fourteen year old, was that my dad lived. You know, my parents were divorced and my dad lived up north all right, and it was kind of cool to go to the... and ride the gay cars and like. That was my world as eleven year old, twelve year old. And then when I'm fourteen, he says I want to tell you something. I said what he said. Well, you know, John, I'm Tom. Tom Is my friend and Tom my dad never drove, so tom was his colleague that always picked me up from the airport. He said Tom's my friend. I said, well, that makes sense, I could figure that out. He said in John, this is John, this guy we hung out with all weekend. He's like, John's my boyfriend. I'm gay. So I'm, so, I'm I'm fourteen. How courageous of him, though I know that's the thing. I didn't. Of course, as a fourteen year old, all I'm thinking about was like, oh my gosh, I am a Gay Dad. My where you like podcast? I was saying I would, oh my God, I was a lot an episode and talk to you about this, because there's a whole world of people on how they hear about their parents, and I'm going to. I'm not I'm not coming out as lesbian or anything, but, oh my God, I have to. I'M NOT gonna go to details. We're going to save this far NAST episode, jared, we're having you already know. Oh my God, we're going to take a quick break, but wouldn't we come back? I've even best, but they didn't take me in. You were in cops, Anita. No, they were really nice because, Um, apparently, when you're I had like a bunch of this. This went dark. I want to see it always ends up door. Or you're saying something about talking with the guy you're dating. Last night you never finished a story because I cut you off. Yeah, I want to hear the rest of the your story. I don't even or the fucking story you say brother. So you had a conversation with that, but he was saying something that made me he was saying a story that made me think of that and I was trying to relate something. It was something about us saying something or I don't even know it. I share. Well, what happen with your conversation with me? I want to keep love and say the name. I can need after this. I think Anita's just trying to hear the conversation about the guy. I'm really curious about what happened that it tied into our conversation today. She doesn't remember. All right, it'll come to me. Howefully it will come to me. Jared, I am very grateful for you for being here and talking to us. I mean we've all very barely like feel like the tip of the seal, to just just tip. We literally just started. There's so much to discuss and it's a very great conversation and and you know, I want people to understand one thing. That what we're talking about here, even though it can turn political, because it's somehow always ends up getting political. People need to understand racism is nothing to do with politics. For you as an individual, maybe your leaders or who you're choosing to look up to. Maybe it is for them, but it's up to us to understand that it's not. You know, Democrat, Republican, you know blue, red, green, it doesn't matter. It's a choice. It's a choice and you have to choose to know better, because we all bleed read, no matter how you look at it. So well said, gg and that's that's why I tell in the book, and just as I'm telling you and your audience, like waiter, say, what is the what is your dad being gay have to do with racism? It's like everything, right, because it's like if, once he died, I was twenty seven, I was surfing, I was parking cars, I was kind of having a good life, right, but I wasn't really doing anything impactful. So when he died I'm like, okay, jared, like you, you've been you've heard enough from from your dad. You've kind of you've been invited into this new realm of who you could be, but you haven't taken it. And then when my dad I'm like, all right, I don't want to be that guy anymore, I want to be this guy. And so I part of that journey was being like all right, I gotta learn, I got to grow, I got to develop, I got involved. And yes, it started with my dad and the LGBT community and that, but then I soon realize like Dune, like, yes, the issues are different for different oppressed and marginalized communities, but there's the same that they're oppressed and marginalized and the same systems and same narratives and same mindsets and same power and privilege. So it was a relatively easy connection to go from, you know, lgbt...

...kind of focus with my dad to racism, because I started, you know, centering humanity and meeting people and having friends and colleagues and like wait a second, I care about you. Yeah, I care about you, and I know enough now because I've learned enough and I've I've done my own self work that this isn't okay with me, even though it doesn't impact me directly like it does you. And so that's where like, that's where the convention and the commitment kind of starts. Is like, this isn't okay with me and I'm not going to be perpetuating what I've been perpetuating in the past. You know, I want to I want to applaud you for not being okay with it. I want to applaud you, the Carol, for being, Oh guy, confinding racism. I want to applaud that. I hope that it can influence many, many people, but if only just one, allow it to be that you know person I just would love to know so much more from your mind. They're really you know, you've seen, you seen the world. I've always I have my own issues. I have my own issues because of what I've dealt with in my upbringing, being Middle Eastern, going through nine hundred and eleven, going through so many wars that we've had in the Middle East throughout my life living here. So I just I would have so much to talk to you about and I really appreciate you being here. I appreciate you all taking a stance. I appreciate you being brave. Really thank you. Thank you very welcome. And you know, if there's one message for your audience, you're listening like, what can I do? What can what should I do? Now I've been I've heard this conversation, I've been moved. You know, I don't have a list of dues and don'ts, but one thing I will say is believe people. Yeah, believe people when they share, however small or large their story is, whatever they choose to share. If they say something happened to them, believe them. Answer. That's IT, Daddy. That's all she was. When you said believe, I was like that's what he said last time. So we're going to go now for the guy that she's dated in the conversations of my later we'll talk about every las. I did reminder that it was a believing people. They know he's right. Believe people. Believe. You all, get to know people here the store. Don't be afraid to ask questions because you never know what someone's story is. You'll be shocked, and we shocked you. Green Book, the Green Mile. No, not maybe now. The green the black book, the Black Note, the the the Blue Book, Red Book, the real book, the Green Book about driving for Black Folk, scribbing across the country. Where there stays the musician. Yes, they go, Mortensen man. Yes, okay, he's doing the Green Miley push on. My Gosh, she's just so jared. Thank you for being here. We will not let you leave until Anita does her thing. It's a game. It's called forgive me, I have sinned, but I've got to take it a little lighter today because I feel like questions this would be funny and stupid and like brainers, and I usually get really intense and like she always gets mad at me. So here we go, jared. Have you ever been arrested? HMM, I know. I got a minor in possession of alcohol when I was twenty. Okay, so I gotta tickets, but I didn't really have to spend any time. Is Demeanor. You didn't have a fan winny of any sort. I think that's what it is. Yeah, so the answers. No, I have not to her if I asked her that question. I think a few weeks. Minor misdemeanor offenses all of them done. No, no judgment here from Jacks anywhere for you or for myself either. I've even been arrested once, but they didn't take me in. You were in cops, Anita. No, they were really nice because apparently when you're I have like a bunch of tickets everywhere and like expeeding tickets or parking this and that, and so they all accumulated and you have to get them release. So I had some in Vegas, I had some in Ohio.

So I've been I was driving forever with a suspended license. We had a warm when these I went through a checkpoint because I'm like, I'm not, don't drink, it's fine, like I'm just going to drive through and I don't have front place because I Ohio Times are front plates. So they pulled me over and on sunset at this checkpoint with all these lights on me and stuff, and conversated my car for like wow, and I said they could have arrested me because of that, and then he's like, but we're not going to take you in because like just call someone to pick you up. And then it came like best friends as everyone, and then it was great and you were about to talk shit. If you asked me the question, do anything. I drove through a checkpoint. So we're on fucking fourth of July, century of Asad. All right, go guys. Sorry, I believe everyone's story. Believe in everyone. I believe your story. And Yeah, that might be an example of white passing or white adjacncy privilege. Yeah, right, there's there's a story in the book I tell that's like hey, I got pulled over by a cop for running a stop sign or something. This is just a couple of years ago and it's all, you know, in this dark space with no place to pull over, I kind of Scood, but I wasn't scared for my life. And he just came in. He said, blah, blah, blah. He's like, Hey, you know, fallow the rules next time. Have a good night. Yeah, okay, thank you. What I was most worried about my insurance rates. Three to go up. I was a black person, like, I'm scared shit in this dark you know, Ye bent over the head, absolutely, absolutely, Oh my God, this this went dark. I want to see it always ends up door. I'm to keep this lie again. Have you ever cheated on a test? MMM, Gosh, yeah, I'm sure I did in high school. I don't have any specific memories, but you know, I wasn't that good at a chemistry so I'm sure I cheated on some chemistry tests. Is that? I know that's not the most kind of revealing answer, but I think it's the best I got. You're yeah, you're pretty good. That's good. Guy. And your book, The book, your book is out right now. White Guy Confronting Racism. Is this out? Where can people find your book? Yeah, so you can go to a white guy confronting racismcom is where I'm really kind of driving people to see that site, to order it, and then it's also available basically everywhere. I've looked too. It's like Whoa. Once you put in the system, it gets distributed everywhere. So the international I don't know how that's very exciting. That's exciting. Yeah, it's in the India. Have a friend in INDIASIC. Yeah, so it's yeah, it's all over the place. So I'm really excited. Yeah, well, you know what, I hope it goes all the places where all the white people are as well. Everybody can pick it up, just to understand that this perspective can be seen through white eyes. You know, it's it doesn't matter what color you are. Like we said, it's for humanity. So I really hope your book reaches Mars and back, because people are going to Mars. Everyone needs to pick up a white guy confronting racism by Jared Carroll. CHECK OUT HIS IG Jared Carol. White Guy Confronting Racism. His quotes are amazing, his mindset is amazing and I think you're going to find him absolutely amazing the way we did today. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for everything. Thank you, you're very welcome. afficiate you both. Gigi and Anita glad to be here. Thanks for listening to genuinely Gigi. download new episodes every week and, if you haven't already, subscribe and be sure to leave us a rating and review and while you're at it, check out some of the other great shows available on Straw hut media.

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